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	<title>Comments on: Is the SBS community a good substitute for training?</title>
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	<link>http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html</link>
	<description>Vlad Mazek on IT, Business and Technology</description>
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		<title>By: welcome to the funcave &#187; professional etiquette</title>
		<link>http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html/comment-page-1#comment-2714</link>
		<dc:creator>welcome to the funcave &#187; professional etiquette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Jul 2006 18:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html#comment-2714</guid>
		<description>[...] so folks trying to pin the blame for clueless it nimrods on the vlad because of his contributions like vladville, orlando it pro, and sbs show makes even less sense than blaming it on something like fluoridated water. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] so folks trying to pin the blame for clueless it nimrods on the vlad because of his contributions like vladville, orlando it pro, and sbs show makes even less sense than blaming it on something like fluoridated water. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: UK SMB Girl &#187; Proof is in the pudding&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html/comment-page-1#comment-2550</link>
		<dc:creator>UK SMB Girl &#187; Proof is in the pudding&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html#comment-2550</guid>
		<description>[...] Talking of Susan, you can find a video of her shouting about the community from a recording taken at TechEd this month. The video discusses the value of an MVP to the community and how you can be part of the bigger picture now! One of the key points that I will be taking away from it for my presentation will be &#8216;paying it forward&#8217; in order to encourage community growth. Vlad&#8217;s opinion may slightly disagree at times to this view but I know that both would agree with me when I say that you are more likely to share with those who you know who will give back. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Talking of Susan, you can find a video of her shouting about the community from a recording taken at TechEd this month. The video discusses the value of an MVP to the community and how you can be part of the bigger picture now! One of the key points that I will be taking away from it for my presentation will be &#8216;paying it forward&#8217; in order to encourage community growth. Vlad&#8217;s opinion may slightly disagree at times to this view but I know that both would agree with me when I say that you are more likely to share with those who you know who will give back. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Myron Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html/comment-page-1#comment-1927</link>
		<dc:creator>Myron Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2006 07:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html#comment-1927</guid>
		<description>Vlad,

Although you raise many valid issues, equating Sole Proprietor with incompetence or poor service is not a given. Both competence and incompetence can be found everywhere. And so can good and poor service.

Incompetence drives me crazy. I do free technical support on a couple of technical forums. It bugs me when I get BASIC questions from &quot;consultants&quot; or &quot;IT Pros&quot; who can&#039;t spend some time doing their own reading and learning. 

I don&#039;t mind helping fellow consultants with unique problems. I DO mind when the answer to their problem is in the first paragraph of a Microsoft KB article or the first Google search listing.

Poor service isn&#039;t limited to Sole Proprietors. Any busy company, no matter how large or small, will deliver poor service if it isn&#039;t properly managed. I&#039;ve never seen data comparing customer satisfaction with Sole Proprietors vs. larger IT providers. But I have clients who complain about both types of former IT providers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vlad,</p>
<p>Although you raise many valid issues, equating Sole Proprietor with incompetence or poor service is not a given. Both competence and incompetence can be found everywhere. And so can good and poor service.</p>
<p>Incompetence drives me crazy. I do free technical support on a couple of technical forums. It bugs me when I get BASIC questions from &#8220;consultants&#8221; or &#8220;IT Pros&#8221; who can&#8217;t spend some time doing their own reading and learning. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mind helping fellow consultants with unique problems. I DO mind when the answer to their problem is in the first paragraph of a Microsoft KB article or the first Google search listing.</p>
<p>Poor service isn&#8217;t limited to Sole Proprietors. Any busy company, no matter how large or small, will deliver poor service if it isn&#8217;t properly managed. I&#8217;ve never seen data comparing customer satisfaction with Sole Proprietors vs. larger IT providers. But I have clients who complain about both types of former IT providers.</p>
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		<title>By: Allen St. Clair</title>
		<link>http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html/comment-page-1#comment-1862</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen St. Clair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 May 2006 15:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html#comment-1862</guid>
		<description>After some of the stupid things I have seen business owners do to their own companies, I think you are being a little unrealistic. If a business owner gets help from anyone with an IT background, they are going to be better off than if they continue to practice DIY.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After some of the stupid things I have seen business owners do to their own companies, I think you are being a little unrealistic. If a business owner gets help from anyone with an IT background, they are going to be better off than if they continue to practice DIY.</p>
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		<title>By: happyfunboy</title>
		<link>http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html/comment-page-1#comment-1853</link>
		<dc:creator>happyfunboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 May 2006 14:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html#comment-1853</guid>
		<description>couldn&#039;t agree more with this post, but you already know that.

oh wait...

i did agree more, over at the funcave:
http://happyfunboy.blogspot.com/2006/05/professional-etiquette.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>couldn&#8217;t agree more with this post, but you already know that.</p>
<p>oh wait&#8230;</p>
<p>i did agree more, over at the funcave:<br />
<a href="http://happyfunboy.blogspot.com/2006/05/professional-etiquette.html" rel="nofollow">http://happyfunboy.blogspot.com/2006/05/professional-etiquette.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html/comment-page-1#comment-1851</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 May 2006 13:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html#comment-1851</guid>
		<description>Harsh, but pretty accurate. I&#039;m not sure of the percentage (interesting sum, though), but the vast majority of our clients have had &#039;an IT guy&#039; of some description doing their IT support before we came along, and they&#039;ve moved to us for a reason. Or probably more accurately, they&#039;ve moved away from the last mob for a reason - we were just in the right place at the right time to catch them. And we&#039;re pretty good at keeping em once we&#039;ve got them. 
I agree with your comments on the cowboys out there (as we call them). I agree they develop a certain level of distrust in the marketplace that we all need to contend with. But damn, if they were all good, we&#039;d have a hell of a lot harder time finding clients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harsh, but pretty accurate. I&#8217;m not sure of the percentage (interesting sum, though), but the vast majority of our clients have had &#8216;an IT guy&#8217; of some description doing their IT support before we came along, and they&#8217;ve moved to us for a reason. Or probably more accurately, they&#8217;ve moved away from the last mob for a reason &#8211; we were just in the right place at the right time to catch them. And we&#8217;re pretty good at keeping em once we&#8217;ve got them.<br />
I agree with your comments on the cowboys out there (as we call them). I agree they develop a certain level of distrust in the marketplace that we all need to contend with. But damn, if they were all good, we&#8217;d have a hell of a lot harder time finding clients.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html/comment-page-1#comment-1846</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 22:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html#comment-1846</guid>
		<description>You have very well stated what I&#039;ve been thinking for years.  I call the hobbyists &quot;trunkslammers&quot;.  They are the guys who do not have a physical address in their Yellow Page ad, the &quot;main office&quot; number is a cell phone, and operate out of a vehicle.

We all clean up after these guys.  We all make good money doing so.  The drawback is this:  The trunkslammers make us all look like a bunch of con-artists who get the check first and then never deliver.  We really need something that gets us recognized as true professionals.  What that would be, I have no idea.  Licensure by the state, like attorneys, cpas, doctors?  All of those professions require some sort of contining education requirements.  

Anybody can pick up &quot;Master Windows Server 2003 in 21 Days&quot;, open an office, and start up in this profession.  Few of us can actually make the business work, keep clients happy, and grow.  I&#039;ve seen them come and go.

You know what?  It&#039;s been the same way every since I&#039;ve been doing this, and our situation is never going to change.  All we can do is be professional and convince the potential customer that we are a different type of IT person.  People like us will survive, the trunkslammers will die out to be replaced by a new crop, and we&#039;ll pick up the pieces of the networks they have designed and ruined, and we&#039;ll eventually be the ones who profit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have very well stated what I&#8217;ve been thinking for years.  I call the hobbyists &#8220;trunkslammers&#8221;.  They are the guys who do not have a physical address in their Yellow Page ad, the &#8220;main office&#8221; number is a cell phone, and operate out of a vehicle.</p>
<p>We all clean up after these guys.  We all make good money doing so.  The drawback is this:  The trunkslammers make us all look like a bunch of con-artists who get the check first and then never deliver.  We really need something that gets us recognized as true professionals.  What that would be, I have no idea.  Licensure by the state, like attorneys, cpas, doctors?  All of those professions require some sort of contining education requirements.  </p>
<p>Anybody can pick up &#8220;Master Windows Server 2003 in 21 Days&#8221;, open an office, and start up in this profession.  Few of us can actually make the business work, keep clients happy, and grow.  I&#8217;ve seen them come and go.</p>
<p>You know what?  It&#8217;s been the same way every since I&#8217;ve been doing this, and our situation is never going to change.  All we can do is be professional and convince the potential customer that we are a different type of IT person.  People like us will survive, the trunkslammers will die out to be replaced by a new crop, and we&#8217;ll pick up the pieces of the networks they have designed and ruined, and we&#8217;ll eventually be the ones who profit.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Edwards</title>
		<link>http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html/comment-page-1#comment-1845</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 19:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html#comment-1845</guid>
		<description>Great!  I now have a better understanding of your stance, Vlad.  SPF&#039;s are just that.  Single Point of Failure.  But even in the SPF classification, there are the &quot;hobbyists&#039; and the &quot;professionals&quot;.  There are some transistioning, but most hobbyists will remain where they are.  I myself am in the transition.  What defines the in-betweeners that deserve your help?  Their willingness to not just go for the easy answer, but to learn &quot;why&quot;.  Their desire to bring in the experts when needed instead of trying to be an expert in everything.  Their passion to make sure the client&#039;s best interests are taken care of.  Is it always apparent who has these characteristics?  No, there are even Gold Partners out there that are be lacking on these principles.  I think you are right to pick and choose, and place you time in those that are moving forward.

As to Harry and SMB Nation...

Harry has the same problem that all authors have.  Interpretation!  Someone that reads his books can chose to ignor his warnings and self-assessment tips just because they have already decided that they want to be an SMB consultant.  I think his books are well balanced in self-assessment tips and &quot;don&#039;t jump off this cliff is you do not have a paracute&quot; advice.

-Ken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great!  I now have a better understanding of your stance, Vlad.  SPF&#8217;s are just that.  Single Point of Failure.  But even in the SPF classification, there are the &#8220;hobbyists&#8217; and the &#8220;professionals&#8221;.  There are some transistioning, but most hobbyists will remain where they are.  I myself am in the transition.  What defines the in-betweeners that deserve your help?  Their willingness to not just go for the easy answer, but to learn &#8220;why&#8221;.  Their desire to bring in the experts when needed instead of trying to be an expert in everything.  Their passion to make sure the client&#8217;s best interests are taken care of.  Is it always apparent who has these characteristics?  No, there are even Gold Partners out there that are be lacking on these principles.  I think you are right to pick and choose, and place you time in those that are moving forward.</p>
<p>As to Harry and SMB Nation&#8230;</p>
<p>Harry has the same problem that all authors have.  Interpretation!  Someone that reads his books can chose to ignor his warnings and self-assessment tips just because they have already decided that they want to be an SMB consultant.  I think his books are well balanced in self-assessment tips and &#8220;don&#8217;t jump off this cliff is you do not have a paracute&#8221; advice.</p>
<p>-Ken</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html/comment-page-1#comment-1843</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 18:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html#comment-1843</guid>
		<description>Well, aside from the usual Vlad acerbic tone, it&#039;s a very good treatise on the state of things today in our field. 

The subject matter reminds me of the first thing I noticed when I started researching whether I could (or would want to) leave my comfy corporate job, where I was very well trained, had 15 years of real experience, and was considered an expert in my own couple of areas - to make a living dealing with networks one 10,000th the size.

What did I find? A business dedicated to doing exactly what you&#039;re complaining about - telling the masses &quot;go ahead you can do it!! Here&#039;s the books you&#039;ll need. Join us for this event. Read about these 15 that have made it!!&quot;

Now I&#039;m not saying I don&#039;t respect what Harry and the SMB Nation crowd have done - quite the contrary. I have learned something every time I pick up one of his books (I own - not borrow - nearly all of them.) But inevitably, the result of marketing the business of SMB Consultant as the job for all is exactly what you describe. It&#039;s like any other business - if you make it appear easy, many will try it, whether they have the skills or not. Many will make a comfortable living, myself included. Some will strive to grow, hopefully avoiding the pitfalls described in &quot;The E-Myth Demystified&quot; (not by Harry, but an excellent book nonetheless). 

Whether or not they grow to the level your business has remains to be seen - logic and economics say no for all but a very few. That in and of itself does not make them a success or not.

I believe enough in integrity that I made it part of my company&#039;s name. I think making sure my customers&#039; networks are running as expected, and exceeding that expectation is more important than if my web site is up (it&#039;s not, but we&#039;re working on it). I have my business cards, and they&#039;re printed professionally. But my experience so far is that when people see the glowing testimonials from my customers, they are far more impressed than they are in the printing quality of my cards. If they weren&#039;t my referrals wouldn&#039;t be there (they are).

So again, I learn from Vlad, from Susan, from Kevin, and from our excellent local group. I learn from google, from the almost weekly SBS installs whether they be for a customer or in my own lab, from the newsgroups and ocassional calls to PSS. I learn from my own experience, and I draw on it constantly. Sorry if I post the rare stupid question - if I do it&#039;s because I didn&#039;t realize it&#039;s stupid. My mistake. 

I like the idea of community, but tiers won&#039;t work. It creates elitism. What good would a bunch of gurus be if they only talk amongst themselves? That&#039;s the reason I left corporate world. I understand my responsibilities as a new player - research before asking, help whenever able. But as for the rest of them, the SPFs, I don&#039;t care. My fear is that I might turn away those labeled as SPFs unfairly just because they haven&#039;t learned how the community works. That lacks integrity. I&#039;ll give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, aside from the usual Vlad acerbic tone, it&#8217;s a very good treatise on the state of things today in our field. </p>
<p>The subject matter reminds me of the first thing I noticed when I started researching whether I could (or would want to) leave my comfy corporate job, where I was very well trained, had 15 years of real experience, and was considered an expert in my own couple of areas &#8211; to make a living dealing with networks one 10,000th the size.</p>
<p>What did I find? A business dedicated to doing exactly what you&#8217;re complaining about &#8211; telling the masses &#8220;go ahead you can do it!! Here&#8217;s the books you&#8217;ll need. Join us for this event. Read about these 15 that have made it!!&#8221;</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m not saying I don&#8217;t respect what Harry and the SMB Nation crowd have done &#8211; quite the contrary. I have learned something every time I pick up one of his books (I own &#8211; not borrow &#8211; nearly all of them.) But inevitably, the result of marketing the business of SMB Consultant as the job for all is exactly what you describe. It&#8217;s like any other business &#8211; if you make it appear easy, many will try it, whether they have the skills or not. Many will make a comfortable living, myself included. Some will strive to grow, hopefully avoiding the pitfalls described in &#8220;The E-Myth Demystified&#8221; (not by Harry, but an excellent book nonetheless). </p>
<p>Whether or not they grow to the level your business has remains to be seen &#8211; logic and economics say no for all but a very few. That in and of itself does not make them a success or not.</p>
<p>I believe enough in integrity that I made it part of my company&#8217;s name. I think making sure my customers&#8217; networks are running as expected, and exceeding that expectation is more important than if my web site is up (it&#8217;s not, but we&#8217;re working on it). I have my business cards, and they&#8217;re printed professionally. But my experience so far is that when people see the glowing testimonials from my customers, they are far more impressed than they are in the printing quality of my cards. If they weren&#8217;t my referrals wouldn&#8217;t be there (they are).</p>
<p>So again, I learn from Vlad, from Susan, from Kevin, and from our excellent local group. I learn from google, from the almost weekly SBS installs whether they be for a customer or in my own lab, from the newsgroups and ocassional calls to PSS. I learn from my own experience, and I draw on it constantly. Sorry if I post the rare stupid question &#8211; if I do it&#8217;s because I didn&#8217;t realize it&#8217;s stupid. My mistake. </p>
<p>I like the idea of community, but tiers won&#8217;t work. It creates elitism. What good would a bunch of gurus be if they only talk amongst themselves? That&#8217;s the reason I left corporate world. I understand my responsibilities as a new player &#8211; research before asking, help whenever able. But as for the rest of them, the SPFs, I don&#8217;t care. My fear is that I might turn away those labeled as SPFs unfairly just because they haven&#8217;t learned how the community works. That lacks integrity. I&#8217;ll give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Dempsey</title>
		<link>http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html/comment-page-1#comment-1842</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Dempsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 17:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vladville.com/2006/05/is-the-sbs-community-a-good-substitute-for-training.html#comment-1842</guid>
		<description>Vlad, 

Excellent post!  Maybe a great topic for a webcast...  Then again, people sign up for American Idol to hear Simon tell them they have no talent.  Being a newbie to the consulting business, I am scared to death of being what you detailed, and if I get offended by what you say, or put down, perhaps I (yes, me.) should look at what I (me again) am doing.  You are (in general) where I want to be, so I&#039;ll listen to you, and what you say, instead of doing it (or IT) my way...  Given that,

My rules for business:

1.  The best learning tools are your eyes and ears.  Remote desktop really helps in this regard.
1.a.  If you are lost (or going nowhere for more than an hour.), call for help.  If Tom Hanks was stuck on an island with a satellite phone, and stayed there for 4 years, refusing to call, he&#039;d be called &quot;an idiot,&quot; or worse.
2.  Document everything.  MS CRM, Sharepoint, Karl&#039;s book are great for this.
3.  Learn from people smarter than you.  Most great leaders aren&#039;t experts at everything; they surround themselves with them.
4.  One of the best things you can do with your mouth (keeping it clean, folks...) is use it to ask questions.  From the customer, from the groups, from your local community.  Then see rule #1.
5.  Protect the customer&#039;s investment.  Just as I wouldn&#039;t ride a motorcycle with their 5 month old baby on the back (untethered), I wouldn&#039;t screw around with their server before backing it up.
6.  Have a plan.  Plans build confidence.  In you.  In the customer.
6.a  Have a plan &quot;b&quot;.
6.b  Follow the plan.

Anyway, thank you for the work that you do.  I can&#039;t speak for everyone, but I appreciate it.

Back to your regularly scheduled webcast...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vlad, </p>
<p>Excellent post!  Maybe a great topic for a webcast&#8230;  Then again, people sign up for American Idol to hear Simon tell them they have no talent.  Being a newbie to the consulting business, I am scared to death of being what you detailed, and if I get offended by what you say, or put down, perhaps I (yes, me.) should look at what I (me again) am doing.  You are (in general) where I want to be, so I&#8217;ll listen to you, and what you say, instead of doing it (or IT) my way&#8230;  Given that,</p>
<p>My rules for business:</p>
<p>1.  The best learning tools are your eyes and ears.  Remote desktop really helps in this regard.<br />
1.a.  If you are lost (or going nowhere for more than an hour.), call for help.  If Tom Hanks was stuck on an island with a satellite phone, and stayed there for 4 years, refusing to call, he&#8217;d be called &#8220;an idiot,&#8221; or worse.<br />
2.  Document everything.  MS CRM, Sharepoint, Karl&#8217;s book are great for this.<br />
3.  Learn from people smarter than you.  Most great leaders aren&#8217;t experts at everything; they surround themselves with them.<br />
4.  One of the best things you can do with your mouth (keeping it clean, folks&#8230;) is use it to ask questions.  From the customer, from the groups, from your local community.  Then see rule #1.<br />
5.  Protect the customer&#8217;s investment.  Just as I wouldn&#8217;t ride a motorcycle with their 5 month old baby on the back (untethered), I wouldn&#8217;t screw around with their server before backing it up.<br />
6.  Have a plan.  Plans build confidence.  In you.  In the customer.<br />
6.a  Have a plan &#8220;b&#8221;.<br />
6.b  Follow the plan.</p>
<p>Anyway, thank you for the work that you do.  I can&#8217;t speak for everyone, but I appreciate it.</p>
<p>Back to your regularly scheduled webcast&#8230;</p>
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